Max Divergent

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Posts by Max Divergent

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  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

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  Max Divergent

  I don't see why evolution is assumed to preclude some other, intelligent force. - Julia Orwell

  No one can prove a negative, like 'there is no God', so there is no preclusion going on (though assumptions of preclusion might be). He might exist but not have created the life we've seen, thus there is no evidence for Him in the origins or diversity of life.

  I think it's more that evolution gives a good enough explanation by itself , thus there is no need for God (or ID) to explain how anything happened and that leaves us no reason to include Him in any explanations.

  Absence might seem like preclusion, but really its just absence: absence of Someone for whom there is no other verifiable evidence. There's nothing to give one cause to believe in God apart from faith, and that's down to the individual.

  [Thanks cantleave! LOL! Abiogenesis, not evolution, refers to the origin of life. Edit duly made.]
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  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

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  Max Divergent

  I understood the amended post. No sweat.

  Ignorance is on the way out. It's just stubborn.
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  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

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  3. 
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  Max Divergent

  There. Happy now?

  Not a matter of that. The amended line makes a clearer point, although I think a different point, within the guidelines and removes a repugnent suggestion.

  You did the right thing.
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  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

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  2. 
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  Max Divergent

  Shador would be well advised to edit out those comments as they are inappropriate and outside posting guidelines 1 and 3.
• 
  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Max Divergent

  Well there's this very dense rock , then space, then a massive explosion and bang we have the universe. Awesome great now every one believe it and no one ask' were the rock came from or space or the energy to make the explosion

  Crazyguy post 218, emphasis added

  No, lots of people have asked that (or a more informed version of the question, anyhow). A potential answer is the multiverse.

  You are misrepresenting people and science. Sadly your kind of trolling rot needs to be rebutted on a forum like this becasue of who this forum is for, people indoctrinated in creationism and persuaded not to develop their critical reasoning faculties.

  You seem to be a predator predating on vulnerable people with distorted reasoning.
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  261

  Evolution is Crap, there I said it!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i started another thread and every one jumped on me because i was trying to take the theory of evolution out of the mix and most here seem to believe in it so i will just say it.

  the theory of major evolution is crap!

  the theory is falling apart.

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  Max Divergent

  ...except computer programmers have noted that when code has randoms added the code deteriorates.

  Computers are simple, life is complex. That means computers work in one and only one way: that is the code needs to meets certain rules and random changes mess that up. Life can exist in a whole lot of ways and still be life, there're no specific rules for it like there are for computer code. That's the difference between simple (random changes mess things up) against complex (the right random changes stick and make something new).

  That is the same argument as in the old blue Creation book where they talked about a wrist watch being put in a box and shaken up for a bllion years of random events (or whatever the exact thing was). They rightly said it'd never make a watch despite all the right pieces being there and being subject to random events. They're right, but that is irrelevent to how random events lead to life becaue life is complex and can go together in lots of ways, but a watch or computer code need to be assembled in a specific order to work.

  Thus complex thngs can evolve, simple things have to be made. Sincere enquirers can read Richard Dawkin's The Blind Watchmaker on this point.
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  43

  Judicial Meeting

  by Kool Jo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so here you are...sitting with a couple of elders at judicial meeting, and you're asked the following question:.

  "do you still believe that the fds is the channel that jehovah is using"?.

  now is it possible to answer 'no' without being df, or how would you answer that question?.

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  Max Divergent

  I've been asked 'do you accept WTS as FDS' (or whatever the question is) twice.

  The first time was with two elders after I'd stoped going to meetings suddenly: I said somthing like 'to say no makes me an apostate per the WT', then disucssed the dictionary definition of apostacy and heracy and took about 10 minutes to say nothing more except that I wasn't sure (about what???). I got away with that. The nasty conservative elder was frustrated, the happy liberal seemed amused. When they phoned for a second appointment, I said they were always welcome at my place (one of them was) but I had nothing religious to discuss: they never tried again. I was 3rd gen and had been a 'well qualified' MS only a couple of months before.

  The second time was a couple of years later and after I'd moved territory. Someone arranged for an elder-pioneer to come around with his wife. He asked the question, slipped into in conversation as one does, and I said I didn't believe in God. He said, 'oh, well that makes it hard to believe in the FDS etc' and he reamained friendly and everything was good. He tried the usual arguments for God which I rebutted politley.

  That could have gone badly if he had DF on his mind: but he didn't seem to.
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  9

  Freedom OF religion, or freedom FROM religion .. what do you wish for and why ?

  by caliber in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are atheist's covered under the "freedom of religion banner do you think ?

  does saying that atheism are not a religion threaten any would be rights therefore ?

  how can you protect nothingness or not having a creed ?.

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  Max Divergent

  As BOTR says, this is one of the big points that makes the US materially different to the other western democracies. And it does no credit to the US. Americans and America have done some of the most amazing and meritorious things in human history: but on this point there seems a collective refusal to be rational*, at least on this point and maybe on others, that makes one wonder how Americans have functioned as a nation, let alone acheive what they have achieved.

  But I wonder if the trouble they are having now (economy, debt, poverty, corporate excess, social division on "right" / "left" terms, healthcare access /affordability etc) are just different manifestations of the same thinking styles that allows such a big and prominant part of the nation to live by an extreme reliance on the existance of God.

  People can beleive in God, and yet act and speak rationally. But too many Americans (and an increasing minority following American-style religions outside the US) just don't. Some talk like madmen and twist facts and reason to accomodate God.

  Please, this is neither anti-American nor anti-God comment. It is wonderment that a country as advanced and as well endowned in the best of educational facilities (eg: any school in the so-called Ivy Leauge), the most inventive of people (insert list of grand 'only in America' achievements) and the best of thinkers (insert long list) can have this ugly flip side of bigotry and ignorance and credulity.

  * I think it takes a heap of rationality to make a success of a big, complex and powerful nation; there may be other ways to either succeed or measure success that don't rely on rationalism at the core. If there are, I don't know of them.
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  23

  Inside Australia's Chilling New Cult (AJ Miller ex jw)

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2oa4oigvo.

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  Max Divergent

  I met 'John Miller' (as he called himself then) years ago. My memory is that he was the School Overseer. He had a bit of a following even then: he was the elder people would go to since he was articulate, friendly and didn't seem too quick to judge. He was a professional too (which made him stand out a bit) : he fixed computers. My own experience of him was that he seemed just a bit more friendly that was quite normal (whatever normal is) for anyone, let alone an elder in a conservative congo (but not to the point of being creepy). The rest of the elders seemed hugly less friendly than normal, so he came over quite well on balance.

  And I also remember that he could string together words that seemed consistant with WTS teachings, but offended no one: quite an achievement. Maybe that's what drove him to the realisation he's Jesus?
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  66

  So apparently I'm now a Secular Humanist

  by Oubliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was doing some research on the subject of beliefs and belief systems when i came across an on-line survey/test that supposedly helps you determine which religion or philosophy is most like your current beliefs.

  if you're curious, you can take the quiz here: belief system selector quizafter answering the 20 questions the results were spit out!

  tada!!!.

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  Max Divergent

  I, an athiest, did the one from the OP and got 0% JW and 100% secular humanist - accurate enough and no suprise.

  Then I did the Christian denomination one for fun and replied 'disagree' with everything (except I said I didn't care if women pastors were allowed: I just couldn't bring myself to agree there should be pastors, regardless of gender) and came out 43% JW!!!! LOL!! I guess that means the JWs disagree with nearly half of what is usual for Christians. It just makes me wonder what the freaking hell 'Unity Church' is: I'm 100% that, whatever it is, according to the test.

  (Ok, looked it up, basicaly Christainity for anyone who believes anything, or nothing, and wants a church that won't hassle them).